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The interviews of the Site : To recover the menu "The interviews of the Site" Gino Sandri, Secretary of the Priory of Sion September 2003

It is during the summer 2003 that we met, for the first time, Mr. Gino Sandri. The idea of this meeting came us following the distributed letter, on several supports, of the thin Priory of Sion of the year 2002. Some months after this decision making, the first contacts were established. Very quickly, Mr. Sandri accepted the idea of one interview destined to be published on the Site" Rennes-Le-Château - The File! ". Mr. Gino Sandri is member of the Priory of Sion since numerous years. Very close to Pierre Plantard, he makes left of the very closed circle of the leaders of the Priory of Sion. As you are going to be able to read it, Mr. Sandri answered the set of our questions as there bringing the elements to their understanding. The set of the answers of Mr. Sandri is returned" In extenso "..

However, the elements, arguments and insinuations of his answers only hire him..

Jean-Patrick Pourtal (JPP) : M. Sandri, how long are you member of the Priory of Sion, and how are there entered you ?

Gino Sandri (GS) : I have been received there in 1977, advisable by Pierre Plantard De Saint-Clair.

JPP : You were a long time close to M. Plantard. You knew it when he was the Graet Master of the Priory of Sion. What were the objectives of M. Plantard for the Priory of Sion when he directed it ?

GS : The bottom is constant and unchangeable, bound to the primordial tradition, however, the outside shapes can vary. SION, in this case, mean branch or origin. it belongs to those that received the load to direct to act to best considering the contingencies of the moment. It is necessary to specify also that if the order often counted within the influential characters who make the CIRCUIT of it ideal for some interests, his/her/its objectives are not political nor financial

JPP : Mr. Plantard was the documentaliste of M. De Sède for several works of this author. How organized itself this collaboration ?

GS :Toward 1960, on the occasion of the business of Gisors, Gérard De Sède, who met Roger Lhomoy casually, publish a resounding article in a weekly to big pull. It is worth him to enter in contact with Pierre Plantard De Saint-Clair. This first appointment to Aulnay-under-wood, 116, Avenue Pierre Jouhet, will be followed of good of others.
Gérard De Sède receives then in deposit a file that provides the matter of his two books: "The Templars are among us "and" The gold of Rennes ". According to the contract signed with the Julliard editions, the rights distribute themselves between Gérard De Sède for 35% and Pierre Plantard De Saint-Clair for 65%..
Gérard of Sède finishes the writing of his second book and goes to Aude, what gives him the opportunity to take contacts. In particular, he makes the acquaintance of René Descadeillas that also publishes him a work on Rennes-Le-Château. I specify that this last was in relation with Pierre Plantard De Saint-Clair since several years.

JPP : Thereafter, M. Plantard has been implied very in the work of the authors Anglais of" The Holly Blood and the Holly Grail". His collaboration to duct these authors to orient the set of their works around the history of the Priory of Sion. The objective was it to unveil the Priory of Sion to the general public and if yes in what goal ?

GS : In a general manner, the Priory of Sion doesn't aim the general public but it is necessary to act in the century in a subtle way. There is alternation of periods during which it is therefore much question of the Priory of Sion and others where one speaks to less of them.
To answer your question precisely, in 1955, Pierre Plantard De Saint-Clair, facing a tense situation, to the lusts of all sorts, decided to divert the attention while bringing up what we sometimes called a poisoning according to a minutely elaborate plan. I can mention you an anecdote. In 1977, whereas we put the finishing touches to the work appeared under the title: "The treasure of the gold Triangle ", I conversed with him of the booklets distributed coins various pseudonyms (Lobineau, Blancassal...) and assigned to the Alpina. Confiding him my feeling, he answered me tit for tat: "It is precisely it, you understand, in 1956, one tried to attack me, then I riposted while throwing the business of Rennes-Le-Château! " It is necessary to say that everybody found its account, including Mr. Corbu that there created a hotel with a restaurant, there.
The lobster pot in which everybody had to assemble was put in place. Confess that it is succeeded.

JPP : A big part of the works of Gérard De Sèdes and English was based on the copies of the parchments that Saunière would have found in Rennes-Le-Château. However we know that these parchments have been achieved by M. De Cherisey. Why this track has it summer thrown in pasture to the different authors of Rennes-Le-Château?

GS : Abbot Saunière discovered some parchments well in the church Saint Madeleine of Rennes-Le-Château, their content doesn't have anything to see with the published here and there papers. It is some in the same way for those that it exhumed thereafter. The plot of the novel of Gérard De Sède is astute. All begins in 1888 by the discovery of mysterious parchments encoded and it is the décryptage whose key is engraved on a tomb that gives access to the treasure. Doesn't it recall you anything? As for the famous published documents and analyzed by Gérard De Sède (and by others...), their apparition appears in the context that I have just exposed briefly. They were not destined to the general public, not more that the famous booklets. These papers acted as support to an exchange of coded messages between networks in action, or even in competition. They don't have anything to see with a treasure of some nature that it is. However elsewhere, the authentic texts are made of it engraved in the stone.

JPP : M. De Cherisey and M. Plantard were for a longtime friends. One can believe that the writing of the parchments is a pure product of their imaginations or can think one that they were inspired by existing documents. ?

GS : Forgive me to repeat me, the writing of these parchments answered a precise goal at the time. There again, it was about diverting the attention in order to protect other documents. As you know it, from 1956, a set of publications distributed coins various pseudonyms is put in circulation. We are in presence of a real country that aims a character or a society that act in the domain of the occult. This exchange only concerns a circle restricts. Forty years after, these documents became without interest except that historic. It is at the very least funny to raise that a "pharmacy" installed at the time to Rennes-Le-Château produces quantity of documents of identical invoice as well as papers or correspondence assigned to abbot Boudet or abbot Bigou. These writings are the subject of a juicy trade then that, it decorated, continued. Unfortunately, authors implied in the history of Rennes are victims of this swindle in which the Priory of Sion doesn't have any part and don't pull any profit of it.

JPP : During a long time M. Plantard sustained the fact that he was the descendant of the last Mérovingienses. Why, thereafter, he has sustained the opposite ?

GS : There is there a key that can illuminate a lot of points. This history is not to take to the letter but it seduced Gérard De Sède, spellbound by the nobility and that bases all his novel" The fabulous race" on this theme and on the myth prégnant of the hidden king. He seizes the opportunity to put in stage a mysterious" marquis of B" of which he receives the confidences. The game takes the size then since this marquis of B maintains a correspondence with innumerable "researchers" using for that to make a beautiful paper to letter decorated with an unknown blazon! Who hides behind this enigmatic aristocrat who has multiple relays in the Razès
Our investigation permitted to establish that a tie existed between this "marquis De B" and the author of the booklet titled: "A treasure mérovingien in Rennes the castle ". This last, of Belgian nationality, had custom, at the time of his Parisian stays, to descend, under Antoine L'Hermitte's name, to the hotel Du Mont d'Or, 19 Rue du Mont d'Or, Paris 17th. Of the 13 to May 17, 1966, he occupies the room n°2 there then, of the 8 to June 19 of the same year, the room n°1. He deposits his/its publication then in the National Library, publication that receives the rating 8 Lj 9 9537.
Another publication acts as reference to Gérard De Sède": The secret files of Henri Lobineau" by Philippe Toscan Du Plantier. According to Gérard De Sède, this name is unknown to this address and Philippe Toscan Du Plantier lives in Bodrun in Turkey.
April 11, 1967, the brigade of the narcotics stops this young professor of philosophy for detention of LSD in the domicile of his friend Anne-Marie Rossi, 17 Quai de Montebello in Paris. The police was informed well! "Honest man ", Philippe Toscan Du Plantier doesn't denounce "his" supplier. The big dailies of the time give account of this news item. Gérard De Sède was a faithful reader of these big Parisian newspapers and he could not ignore this news item! !
One half-century ago, lived a curious character who made itself call Henri Lobineau or "Comte De Lénoncourt ". One could meet it in Paris, where he lived, in Gisors or in Rennes the castle where he had established the general district of a strange pharmacy. This discreet character had become famous during World War II. He operated in occupied France and in Switzerland for the count of Selborne, responsible of the SOE. The war finished, it leads front of multiple and discreet activities, looking for the treasures, negotiating old currencies. He was in relation with Leo Schidlof, antiquarian and historian of the resident art in Vienna. Leo Schidlof is the author of the catalog of a big exhibition on the old miniatures in Geneva, in 1956. If the curiosity you there shoot, consult some copies of this trilingual catalog; the English version is far from being the translation of the French text, it is some in the same way for the German version! Mr. N says Henri Lobineau frequented a Parisian engineer inhabitant Foch avenue. Besides, this same year, the superb apartment of the Avenue Foch is destroyed by a fire. There won't be an investigation. This year 1967 is rich in news item. It is necessary to speak of Fakar Ul Islam found death in station of Melun following a fall inauspicious of the night train Paris-Geneva ?
Again a news item if you are it willing. This same year an opuscule "The Red Snake ", is the subject of the legal deposit. However, the three mentioned authors almost committed suicide simultaneously. The delirium is infectious what brought some authors a little overwrought to affirm that Pierre Plantard De Saint-Clair and the Priory of Sion murdered three people by hanging!
The content of these small opuscules is certainly raving but it resides there sometimes a bottom interesting. Then, a last coincidence: in this year 1967, several cardboards of archives of the Priory of Sion are stolen, at the time of a burglary, in the apartment of Philippe De Chérisey, situated 37, Rue Saint-Lazare in Paris. Is there a report between all these facts? Five years later a jobless journalist blackmailer at his hours, will tempt to sell these papers to the more bidder! !

JPP : In 2000, Mr. Plantard dies. To the me of June of this same year, I am contacted directly rather by his son, by e-mail that announces his father's death to me, intervening some days. However after verification, I discover that the death of M. Plantard occurred February 3, 2000. Why such an attempt of manipulation around the death of the Great master. of the Priory of Sion ?

GS : These last years, the Priory of Sion in general Pierre Plantard De Saint-Clair should have faced a tense situation in particular. We knew an upsurge of draw, of anonymous tracts, threats and pressures of all orders, but it is not the most serious. Pierre Plantard De Saint-Clair doesn't wish to finish like Péladan or Georges Monti victims of a poisoning. A strategy has been elaborated and arrangements have been taken. I won't tell more of them.

JPP : For some, the death of M. Plantard would be false. For others, M. Plantard would be... resuscitated ! That think yourselves of all it ?

GS : To your opinion ?

JPP : Let's come back to the Priory of Sion. That represents Rennes-Le-Château for the Priory of Sion ?

GS :Other places exist according to the times. Why one speaks never of Millau, of Annemasse of Montrevel or Brazil. All this fits in the space and the time. With regard to Rennes-Le-Château, the Priory of Sion establishes its seat there in 1681. The Company of the Saint-sacrament, founded by Henri DeLévis, is dissolved in 1665. Some chandeliers later some adepts always exist in the region, adepts who join the Priory of Sion.
To the origin of this choice we find Jean-Timoléon De Négri d'Ables of assisted of Blaise De Hautpoul. Also raise the names of abbots André-Hercule De Fleury and Jean-Pierre Cabanié. New arrangements are taken September 19, 1730 by François De Hautpoul and Jean-Paul De Nègre himself bound to a survival of the Company of the Saint-Sacrement.
If we come back to the archives of the Priory of Sion this designates deposits of various natures of the documents or objects of which some are very old I think about engraved some stones. The situation is very complex. During the French revolution enters 1789 and 1792 of the "clandestine" deposits are constituted in order to put the precious files and the authentic acts safe from the vandals. For most all subsisted. With regard to the Priory of Son, some of these acts have been confided to Maximilian DeLorraine, archbishop of Cologne. In the beginning of the XIXème century, some pieces remain between the hands of the Hapsburg that, some decades later, establish contacts with abbots Boudet and Saunières. Why? It is question of exchanges of documents.
Another deposit is constituted to the castle Du Lys close to Lille. In 1938, Gabriel Trarieux D'Egmont is invited there by the Comte De Saint-Hilier, great-uncle of Philippe De Chérisey. In forecast of the war that announces itself, the archives, confided to Gabriel Trarieux D'Egmont, are displaced to Go up-Carlo.
Let's speak, if you are it willing, of a similar affair. At the end the French revolution, the Priory of Sion tempts to get by Angélique Lenoir the restitution of some acts. She pretends to have burnt all papers then under Terror. It is improper because we know that she confided a part of it to the Comte D'Antraigues.
Why these precautions? What was the secret of Angelique Lenoir? Why does she pretend to have destroyed all papers, titles and handwritten that she received? André Chénier and abbot Delille speak of documents of the Temple. But,... about what Temple is it? The order of the Temple or the secret of the Temple in Paris? Only this last could have the interest to the eyes of the Hapsburg.
Angelique Lenoir was married to Jean-Marie Alexandre De Hautpoul. In 1799, so-called Elisabeth De hautpoul Miss Rennes receives its family in the castle of Montferrand to the Bains de Rennes. Is notably present the general of Hautpoul. This meeting has for goal to confide the documents of Angélique Lenoir to the last damsel of Rennes. This one dies in Paris May 20, 1820.
The royalists didn't hesitate to believe that the parchments of Angélique Lenoir touched the enigma of the survival of Louis XVII. On this day, no one recovered the documents of Angélique Lenoir, of the less... in Rennes !

JPP : There were some relations between Bérenger Saunière and the Priory of Sion ?

GS : What do you hear by relations? If you ask me if he belonged there, the answer is negative. Bérenger Saunière was in the place and he was used and was manipulated by different networks to look for some deposits. I specify you that the research of the abbot Saunière treasure is not interested. For my part, I never dug any holes in the region and don't count to make it !

JPP : It is considerable that Rennes-Le-Château attracts many groupings. Of numerous "Secret" Societies, "Discreet" seem to be passionately fond for this place. That thinks the Priory of Sion of it and he is also present in these places ?

GS : The Priory of Sion is some delighted. It occupies them. More has madmen, more one has fun. As Pierre Plantard De Saint Clair says it with his customary humor, all takes place according to the foreseen plan, forty years after! Still on the humorous fashion, I believe that there is a Priory of Sion well in activity in Rennes or maybe several, but it is about the counterfeitings that we identified. To your opinion, why one doesn't speak of places just as important ?

JPP : For some, the Priory of Zion would be bound to Freemasonry. That he is some ?

GS : The question often comes back. I am going to try to dissipate confusion therefore. I know that some see the Priory of Sion like a masonic obedience or more precisely a structure of high ranks. It is not anything of it. It is a system of representation that is familiar to them but that doesn't have any report with the reality. From where does this confusion come? I already evoked the opuscules deposited to the National Library mentioning the Big Stall Switzerland Alpina as if one wanted to direct on this track. In what goal? But, It arrives that some masonic structures are either caused oriented by the Priory of Sion to act as outside circle or relay as in Lyons in 1828 with the ritual of Memphis. Later, these structures are delivered to their own destiny. Finally, of the freemasonry members and no the least were part of the Priory of Sion. I think about doctor Savoire or Georges Monti, very bound to the Duke De Conaught, Great Master of the Great Loge United of England but, the franc - masonry was not their priority

JPP : In the beginning of this year, an "official" document of the Priory of Sion has been brought to the general public attention. This document carried your signature as well as another with the mention G CHYREN. It is announced that 2003 are a fateful year and that the apogee of the Priory of Sion will be reached. What are the particularities of 2003 for the Priory of Sion ? To what moment should reach him its apogee, knowing that we are in the month of October 2003 ?

GS : The cycles that determine of the privileged moments, what one calls in some surroundings of the circuits, exist. These remarkable instants are auspicious to the revelations. With regard to the Priory of Sion, all is in order and we go circa a necessary clarification. The false Priories are going to appear in full light what will encourage their implosion.

JPP : Still in the same document, it is clearly specified that the Woman's place is important for the Priory of Sion. Some what consists her ?

GS : On a fundamental plan, it is an essential point, overlooked unfortunately well. The pluspart of the societies initiatiques is often only caricatures and the latent misogyny is a sign of it. Without can spread me on the topic, I want to submit this to your reflection. In a lot of rituals, impetrating it is put in presence of the death and the rebirth. Dead and transfiguration! However, in the Egyptian mythology, it is Isis that is able alone to gather the scattered pieces of the body of Osiris. Although one makes, it is inescapable. .

JPP : Can describe us to you and explain us the structure of the Priory of present Sion ?

GS : Several circles, at least two, exist traditionally three to be exact, what sometimes gives the impression that several structures exist, one being traced him of the other.

JPP : In this end of year 2003, the Priory of Sion of 2003 seems very different from the one that directed M. Plantard. Can speak yourselves us of the its objectives ?

GS : It is evidently an impression and I gave you the explanation previously of it. There is not any difference, no rupture and be persuaded that the influence of Pierre Plantard is well real. As for its objectives, they are not political nor financial some are the members. The affairisme doesn't have its place there. The world of the arts and letters occupies a major place there always.

JPP : The Priory of Sion is directed by a Great master. Can speak yourselves us of the Great master present and can reveal us to you his name ?

GS : I won't tell you more of them today.

JPP : For a lot of people, the Priory of Sion seems inexistent. Do you recruit ? And what are the necessary qualities to enter to the Priory of Sion ?

GS : One doesn't apply for. One is chosen carefully after have been studied for a long time and tried in particular, the moral integrity is essential. One doesn't attach any value to the titles and to the diplomas. Generally, impetrating it is a noble and pure heart belonging to no structure. Péladan organized the lounges of the Rose-cross, Georges Monti was an artist-painter; the setting in circulation of work of art is a signal of recognition intended to unite the individuals having an identical sensitivity.

JPP : A latest question: What is the tie between the discreet Priory of Sion that we have just evoked whole and the association created in Annemasse in 1956 ?

GS : The association created in Annemasse answered in its time, in this place, to a precise goal. It was also, if you prefer, a sort of outside circle. A similar function was devolved to the order of the alpha-Gallates created in 1934 in Paris. We could also evoke other creations...

Thank you for your answers