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The interviews of the Site :
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 The interview of M. Jean-Luc Chaumeil has been achieved during the summer 2001. It is during this same summer that we learned that some elements seemed have been discovered in the basement of the church as well as under the Magdala tower. We are in April 2002 and since nothing…
Jean-Luc Chaumeil is born October 20, 1944 in Lille. Writer Journaliste he/it is passionately fond for everything that touches the mystery and the paranormal.
Rennes-Le-Château - Le Dossier : We are August 24, 2001 and I follow with Jean-Luc Chaumeil author of different works of which several on Rennes-Le-Château. Mr. Chaumeil, thank you to receive me. Can relate us to you quickly how you came to interest you to the business of Rennes-Le-Château knowing that you are a journalist writer ?
Jean-Luc Chaumeil : I was interested at the time like everybody in Rennes-Le-Château when I read the work of Gérard De Sède: "L'Or de Rennes ". So first of all I had an a priori, I felt that this history was not innocent. Thereafter while founding a newspaper, Europe, one me reparla again of this history. I always mistrusted a little this history and this distrust always followed me. One had given me a certain number of indications like what the treasure of Rennes-Le-Château had been discovered and that some essential pieces were in Geneva; evidently with all elements that I had, the apocryphal documents that existed, the characters who surrounded history, I went to see Gérard DeSède. It was not the character that one had described to me, but on the other hand it was an excellent writer. At the time of our meeting I tell him: "it is necessary to go to see the concerned person "". I was the first to interview Pierre Plantard. I call it Pierre Plantard, because he made himself call Pierre Plantard always, born March 18 1920 sons of a valet.. Is a time I considered writing" the messiah and the valet's son "..
RLCD : Astonish ancestry for the last Mérovingiens!
JLC : Plantard had indicated me a certain number of things. I noticed one of his specialties: every time he expressed an essential point, as information, didn't have any event to be able to confirm it. Plantard emerged in this history, on the one hand, because Gérard De Sède had presented it like a documentaliste, therefore as someone that had some archives, and also as a Hermite (who had a room at the 35 Avenue Victor Hugo, whereas he said that he had an apartment of 600 square meters).
RLCD : One notes that, not only he was documentaliste in" L'Or de Rennes ", but also in" tLes templiers sont parmi nous ", another book of Sède. He appears there also as being the famous hermétiste !
JLC : That, it is the way of which presents people DeSède! It is his aspect storyteller. He is necessarily obliged to bring everything that is going to support his theory therefore necessarily there he is going to amplify. When one reads" L'Or de Rennes", one wonders why Sède didn't speak of the priory of Sion. To the time, he didn't believe at all in it; only he found that it made well for the narration this is how he put apocryphal documents in appendices. I made a special number of the Charivari therefore immediately. I made the first interview of Plantard" interview with the lost king ". My journalist's profession consisted in making him tell the more of things on the subject. To the continuation of this meeting, we emitted, Claude Jaquemart and myself, a certain number of reserves as for the character's pretensions. One found the pretty history, no more than that. As for the Priory of Sion, it is well obvious that there also it was necessary to a long work of investigation, that is to say to go to Annemasse, to have its statutes, to perceive immediately, to be short, that Plantard in was not the President and that this last was called Bonhomme. I believed that "Bonhomme" was a pseudo, I believed that that meant" Cathar ". Plantard was the treasurer of the Priory of Sion. It has me was necessary of the time to recover this Pierre Bonhomme that, him, explained me what had been in 1956 the association of the Priory of Sion governed according to the law of 1901; It was therefore an association !
RLCD : What didn't have anything to see, in the mind, with what became the priory of Sion. .
JLC : The association of the Priory of Sion, in relation to the statutes that I published in the Charivari, was an association charged of the protection of the HLM next to Sion. It is all! It was an association of boys scouts, besides Plantard had been notably a chief boys scouts in Brittany. The association of the priory of Sion, described by its president, Pierre Bonhomme, by its vice-president Of Faggot - For" Faggot" I believed also that it was a pseudo - had the picture of an association of boys scouts always. Besides the protection of the HLM, their goal was to make some environmentalists. Thereafter, I went to the office of the associations of police's prefecture. And there! Surprised! I perceived that the association of 1956 was only a third test, a third attempt of creation of an association. There had been an association of culture that was called before, if I have good memory "French Renovation" whose chairwoman was the mother of Plantard. There had been, also, an association that was called" Alpha Galate" whose statutes were written in Germans between 1942 and 1943.
RLCD : You also explain it in your book" the table of Isis "
JLC : In this file had a report of the general information extremely clear that said that Plantard was someone illuminated, that he wanted to save France. That he announced close to 6000 adherents but that makes some had about ten people, to know the members of the office, only! The people who frequented Plantard left it one after the other. Therefore, that çe is from 1940 to 1953 for" French Renovation" and after 1956 one had to make that to small organisms very localized without big pretension. The only pretension was in the head of Plantard. I met the third character: Marquis Philippe De Cherisey that I interviewed for the Charivari. From true things, he had recovered, as Gérard De Sède besides, in Orleans at Midsummer's Day, an abbey where there had been the monks who come back from Jerusalem had founded all a chapter dedicated to Notre Dame De Sion. If it is true that in history there was an organization having the same more or less draws it never had the importance of an occult society as the one of the" SVallon du Val d'Or". One tried to glue some pieces because one wanted to create a modern myth in relation to a work. The books of Gérard De Sède, in a general manner, are only the text, the tool of basis of Pierre Plantard. If one takes the contracts at Juliard, at the time Gérard De Sède, that is for" Les Templiers Sont Parmi Nous" or that is for" L'Or de Rennes ", only has rights of authors limited as writer, while Cherisey is rather the inventor of the document, as the famous parchments of abbot Saunière, and that Pierre Plantard would have been the "Ax" of history that gave some ideas. It is necessary that these ideas are therefore believable a specialist is necessary and was in this case himself Gérard De Sède. .
RLCD : You have just said very quickly that Philippe De Cherisey was the creator the editor of the documents and the parchments of the business who made sink ink so much and on which many modern authors leaned to publish some books
JLC : I already wrote it, at a time in magazines and in a movie to the BBC in 1997 to adjust this history. That didn't adjust anything at all !
RLCD : And besides I think that few people know this movie.
JLC : Few people know it! It have had of the protests but also of the congratulations! During this movie I show of it the parchments
RLCD : Therefore you, you have the parchments ?
JLC : I have the parchments and I showed them as well as the 7 or 8 fundamental and essential points that show that the data of the history of the treasure of the abbot saunières, of the" vicar to the billions" are false. The parchments are false and I showed them to the BBC. The way of which they have been interpreted, their codification has been made in a manuscript that is called" stone and paper ", I showed how Cherisey codifies what he already copied at the national library in the religious ray. I showed a page of the manuscript of Philippe of Cherisey" stone and paper ".
RLCD : Philippe De Cherisey was indeed an adept of the cryptography ?
JLC : Philippe of Cherisey is for me the brain of history, but it is a brain that doesn't know how to use history. It is therefore a documentaliste, it is therefore a scholar that is an exceptional character. I went to see it in Liege. With a lot of precautions he made left of the scheme but of the literary scheme. I saw it making a crisis of jealousy to Plantard when this last had announced noisily that there was a transfer of the priory of Sion in Blois, Philippe De Cherisey blamed him of he have not been invited !
RLCD : One perceives that all this installation, in the years 60, is nevertheless thought extremely well, gone up well.
JLC :Is there something that interested me who fascinated me that is how a scholarly, exceptional brain, with a phenomenal culture, can make genealogies of the kings mérovingiens? Already for the Templars one meets some problems to have some texts! Then for the mérovingiens. One knows that 80% of the charters are false! The official charters are false because it was at the time an illness. How to make a work as huge that the one that is under the wording of the young kings mérovingiens? There again time was necessary a lot! A lot of time was also necessary; a lot of time to understand a simple thing: This history is the one of two buddies. There is a photo that I published in" the treasure of the Templars ", in the first edition that was called" the treasure of the gold triangle ", one sees Philippe De Cherisey aged of about thirty years and Plantard a little older. One sees them to the entry of an underground cave, and god knows if there is some in the region! It is the history of two friends, only the problem it is that there is a that is marquis, marquis Philippe De Cherisey, with a heap of nobility districts who is incontestable of it and the other is simply called Plantard and that he is son of a valet and it is maybe the jealousy of one against the decay of the another one that entailed the continuation. One only benefitted to some, it is storyteller Gérard De sède
RLCD : One realizes, that the history of Rennes-Le-Château undergoes "a hollow" and that in the years 75-80 one vague news arrives and one discovers 3 new authors on this file who are the authors Anglais of " The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail" They throw back theaffair completely and I believe that currently everybody works on these bases, that is cannot be at all the good that think yourselves of it ?
JLC : I only think some of the pain and there I am cannot be objective. It is well certain that for the French, at the end of the years 80, the essential had been said on the history of Rennes, as besides on the history of Gisors and on the one of Stenay. A beautiful day I receive the three English visit: Henry Lincoln, Michel Baigent and Richard Leigh. We had been put in relation through the intermediary of an English that is called Jania Mc Gallivrey that made me a paper of ten pages that has been published all over the world and that translates everything that I had made. In fact, what they searched for that was to contact Plantard. They tried to prepare a new manipulation in the setting of the Anglo-Saxon and American public. . They knew that I had already written quite a lot of things on the topic as well as Sède. One has been contacted all. Those people had grouped themselves to prepare two documentaries of weak content, it is necessary to say it. Their thread driver was the pentagramme in the picture of Chick. One perfectly knew that" the shepherds of Arcadie" were not next to Arques, çe was again one of the points that it was necessary to verify. One knew that there had been a child of 3 or 4 years who had been buried under the tomb of Arques, one knew that it was a Canadian family and one knew that there had been researchers of treasures who had had the good taste to open the tomb what had deeply displeased to the family that made besides thereafter shave the tomb. Therefore, if the tomb was so important that, I suppose that the historic monuments would have, during the ministry of Jack Lang, opposite a formal veto. One met therefore, of a way quite epic. We were several, let's mention the French: There was Pierre Plantard, there was then at the time one of my readers that was called Gino Sandri had the two editors of at Belfond, Jean-Pierre Delo and Jean-Domique Devaux. Of quoted it English: The documentaliste Jania Mc Gallivrey, Henri Lincoln whom at the time worked to the BBC, Richard Leigh the American that was novelist and the Australian Michael Baigent that were also he a documentaliste. There was as Roys Davis, producer of movies and there was the CEO of the European inks. One met in a room of projection. Plantard estimated that an extremely slow and progressive approach was necessary to know what they wanted precisely. We met in this private projection room to the Champs Elysée. It was something fabulous, I had never seen personally that. ! When the French group arrived, of which I made left, one felt that it was as in the mafia, everybody mistrusted, everybody verified under the armchairs, everybody touched the jacket the same place…
RLCD : it is indeed a movie of Hitchcock! !
JLC :There was a noteworthy incident, Richard Leigh who had a blazon, with the medallion of the Hasbourgses, arrived toward Plantard, and said him "hello Majesty ", slipped on a walk and he fell. The atmosphere it is a little relaxed, whatever some looked everywhere at a little to know if a bomb was not exploding (to Laugh) I read their book since I am mentioned 153 times. In the first book, I am someone of very kind, in the second, having criticized them on several radios and in my articles, I became someone mean. And in the last book of Henry Lincoln, the last that he made, there I am even nastier! One accuses me of being jealous not to have participated in the broadcast or Plantard was interviewed! And yet, I lent my mother's gallery for the plan of a filming with Plantard
RLCD : This famous plan that one sees in the cassette" the secret of the Templars" where one sees Plantard that answers some questions of Henry Lincoln ?
JLC : Yes! It was worthy of a novel of Tartuffe because Henry Lincoln to one moment gets excited and one feels that it needs an essential element to be able to say: "but finally the kings mérovingiens in the XX century, that it is the importance of it? " he is going to try to trap Plantard. Plantard was dressed at the time with a small gray costume of the years 1930; he spoke very slowly because he had a very bad diction, a diction nearly with a peasant accent. He thinks. has a dead time and then he makes: "But you don't know that the mérovingiens created France ". All was said! Lincoln hollowing, that since one half-hour fenced himself to make him tell something else, has been stunned and didn't dare to ask other questions more. On the movie one sees little thing of the interview of Plantard, but every hold has been redone at least 30 times. That nearly lasted 18 hours. My mother's gallery is a surrealist gallery and the debate that one saw the is again more, the station of Perpignan has been transformed in station of Rennes-Le-Château by Plantard that that is an evidence !
RLCD : One perceives that Pierre Plantard, through the various évènements and through that that to been brought by the English, can also open another track. As one can think that there is a difference between the European Latin track and the more Anglo-Saxon track to the level of Jesus' marriage with Marie-Madeleine.
JLC : The English contrary to what one believes didn't invent anything in this business. The only intelligence that they had that is to say that Jesus had gotten married with Marie-Madeleine and that Marie-Madeleine had had some children and that the children were mérovingiens! And that for what is descendants of the mérovingiens, they had a front the eyes of it: Pierre Plantard. Therefore that glued battery with the Anglo-Saxon and American mind. Whereas the French are a long time since good, for 90% of the population, atheistic and that Jesus' history they make fun a few of them.
RLCD : Somewhere has a notion of business toward the Anglo-Saxon countries that were not touched really again by the problematic Rennes-Le-Château ?
JLC : It is likely that Henri Lincoln is himself himself makes manipulate by the producer, whom himself made itself manipulate by other people. If one smelled like the bestseller to the financial level the other had other ambitions. One month before the release of" Holly blood, Holly grail ", all buses of London had some posters of more than a meter glued on their doors on which one could read: "The real history of jésus ". Therefore one sees well that there was manipulation. Who manipulated? who paid these posters? It is not Henri Lincoln! It is not Richard Leigh! To that time, they didn't roll by Ferrari! It is someone else.
RLCD : There is a real operation of marketing ?
JLC : An operation of marketing ! a religious propaganda operation !
RLCD : One can sense religious, occult movements ?
JLC : I never saw a French book with the posters on the Parisian buses one month before the release. A publisher would not make this kind of advertisement !
RLCD : it is indeed a reflection !
JLC : And it is necessary to read the conclusion of" Holly blood, Holly grail" the conclusion it is: was there well the Komeni Ayatola, Plantard would not he be the Ayatola French Komeni? " it is necessary to read this small sentence !
RLCD : Uit can, indeed, to have some consequences long-term !
JLC : I think that Plantard made itself manipulate, besides he had it himself says on France Inter. As all manipulated, he has also been flattered by this history and evidently he continued to play the game, in other words one attended, outside of the English business, that is a recent business, to the pure creation of a modern myth. Jean Robin to one time had written" the mythology of Rennes-Le-Château ", René Descadéllas, the curator of Carcassonne, also wrote it, of a way more or less dishonest! he had made some excavations. therefore to write a book of mythology on Rennes-Le-Château after having made is even excavations…
RLCD : Now we know it, it is official, Pierre Plantard died. One has the elements that prove it, certainly the dates were controversial. It is astonishing to see that since the death of Pierre Plantard quite a lot of things move to Rennes the castle, at the moment we attend a phenomenal enough press operation on different commentaries, That think yourselves of it ?
JLC : I think that this operation of press already took place with gentleman Fontant the engineer from Strasbourg. Another at the time of M. Henri Buttion with the first team of researchers. Henri Châtillon wanted to have some reprieves to continue their excavations with Robert Charoux and that since made huge excavations in Rennes-Le-Château. There would be a lot of things to say notably among the former researchers of treasures, finally that it is again something else, but it is certain that the modern affair, one is going to say present, is a repetition. The history of the Magdala tower, with an underground and with a hiding place of treasures is not new. You have it in the Dépêche du Midi of the years 60, you have it in 70 you have it in 74. In 72 with the engineers of the Mossad who come to recover the ark of alliance, you have it in my number of the Charivari, you have it in" the treasure of the Templars" on the 5 editions, all that is not new. It is necessary to say also that, by chance, it happens during the period summery .C' is suspicious. Nessi comes back, the flying saucers and the treasure of the Templars also!
It is true that since the book of the English there were spectacular commercial operations had nevertheless the" Rennes Tower" and the" Rennes Tower" brought the hundreds of English that didn't come in France to go to see Paris but to go to see Rennes-Le-Château and to the Montségur rigor. I tell the rigor" well!" They were going to see Rennes-Le-Château! Why? And there it is a little the sequence in relation to what one said before, because there were several books that were farther than Lincoln. One said that it was the tomb of the christ, next was God's tomb. Finally, it is normal that a myth becomes a castle in Spain and that to that moment has projection and as since the beginning of the century everything that is spiritual is crystallized systematically and is materialized. I think about the" black collection and however" I read" Robert Laffont and collections" that followed, where systematically it is always the same thread driver. One materialized a spiritual idea, I think that while hitting by the top, that is to say while hitting to the Christ-God's level etc. while speaking of more materialistic inspired hills, the English made an astonishing commercial operation that corresponded to the mind of the time, to the mind of a certain decadence, because from the moment or one inverts the ideas, there had a decadence, a true decadence.
RLCD : Mr. Chaumeil I thank you for having answered the questions for the site Rennes Le Château the file I wish you an excellent evening..
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